Talk:Milestone:2007.2

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Code, documentation, organisation

I'm not really happy with separation between code, documentation and organisation. It seems to me that it's rather hard sometimes to categorize one task exactly into one category. E.g. is the improvement of the Getting started article either:

  1. Documentation-related? As it serves as documentation for new developers.
  2. Organisation-related? As it describes how new developers can fit themselves into the existing organisation structure.

There are two possible options I see here:

  1. Create two selective sections by changing the term for organisation and / for documentation.
  2. Find a common term for both sections and merge them this way.

Feedback please.

--barra 14:30, 7 September 2007 (CEST)

IRC session 2007/09/13

  • Sep 13 01:02:10 <jasoka> hmm... we should prolly decide soon what will be the content of 2007.2 release. I'll check out the milestone article now writing some quick comments here in the channel.
  • Sep 13 01:02:43 <barra> hey
  • Sep 13 01:02:58 <barra> you're a mindreader jasoka
  • Sep 13 01:03:04 <jwt> yes, there's lots of important stuff in that milestone article, but we should probably pick out a selection of things and prioritize them for the release
  • Sep 13 01:03:07 <jasoka> :)
  • Sep 13 01:03:39 <barra> I wanted to talk to you about that but forgot to do so; I wanted to know what the programmers intend to add besides the documentation and organisation plans I've written down
  • Sep 13 01:04:07 <jasoka> build systems: We could perhaps just refer to scons -h option and only support one build system at the time. Having documentation in only one place is prolly a good thing
  • Sep 13 01:04:30 <jasoka> Data structures -> ok
  • Sep 13 01:04:48 <jasoka> Debugging -> ok
  • Sep 13 01:04:57 <barra> first question: are you fine with milestone planning at the wiki jwt?
  • Sep 13 01:05:22 <barra> as we did just use trac for this in the past
  • Sep 13 01:05:30 <jwt> yeah, wiki is fine
  • Sep 13 01:05:41 <jasoka> Engine architecture -> we could do some light weight docs for each module. Extensive documentation requires a bit more stabilizing for the engine
  • Sep 13 01:05:53 <jasoka> Engine features -> ok
  • Sep 13 01:06:55 <jasoka> Game creation document should prolly be also quite light weight at this point. apis are likely to change in near future releases. Something that gets people started could prolly be sufficient
  • Sep 13 01:07:11 <jasoka> Glossary -> ok
  • Sep 13 01:08:03 <jasoka> packaging -> also something light weight for first iteration, but in general its ok
  • Sep 13 01:09:45 <jasoka> UML is ok for the modules that clearly benefit from it. In case module has multiple essential elements and their relationship is not trivial, picture is helpful. Perhaps not to require UML to be used everywhere, but at least in cases that require clarficiation
  • Sep 13 01:10:06 * jwt__ (~jwt@cpe-24-59-40-172.twcny.res.rr.com) hat #FIFE betreten
  • Sep 13 01:10:30 <jwt__> :(
  • Sep 13 01:10:55 <jwt__> my internet has been lousy this week
  • Sep 13 01:11:38 <jasoka> unit tests: perhaps at least in first iteration we don't yet mandate that tests should be developed first, but instead that existing tests must run succesfullty before commits
  • Sep 13 01:11:56 <jasoka> more documentation about them is ok
  • Sep 13 01:12:10 <jasoka> website -> ok
  • Sep 13 01:12:52 <jasoka> more regular blog updates is a good target, requires somebody to keep reminding about that
  • Sep 13 01:14:01 <barra> ahh well the question about blog updates is: is it worth that programmers "waste" time on this or should I focus on it?
  • Sep 13 01:14:26 <jasoka> well, e.g.irc pastes don't take much time
  • Sep 13 01:14:39 <jasoka> communication -> ok
  • Sep 13 01:14:58 <barra> good point about the IRC pastes; I'll add that one to a blog article at the wiki :-)
  • Sep 13 01:15:11 * jwt hat die Verbindung getrennt (Read error: Operation timed out)
  • Sep 13 01:15:15 <jasoka> not sure about getting started part, I guess you have better ideas for that atm
  • Sep 13 01:15:22 * jwt__ ist jetzt bekannt als jwt
  • Sep 13 01:16:11 <jasoka> licence -> ok, we could also add that single file stating stuff that we are using from other code projects
  • Sep 13 01:16:54 * jellocaca (~trash_biz@bas10-montreal02-1177585150.dsl.bell.ca) hat #FIFE verlassen
  • Sep 13 01:16:57 <jasoka> platform support -> ok if we find those people, but in case we don't it shouldn't prolly block the release (at least we test in linux & win)
  • Sep 13 01:18:10 <jasoka> recruitment -> we could possibly utilize tickets there more. In any case devs rarely focus only on one part of the engine all the time
  • Sep 13 01:18:31 <barra> hmm didn't get that last statement jasoka
  • Sep 13 01:19:31 <jasoka> so we possibly could just have a set of open tickets for people to tackle
  • Sep 13 01:19:45 <barra> oki, got it :-) thanks for clearing that up
  • Sep 13 01:20:03 <barra> anything to add jwt?
  • Sep 13 01:20:12 <jasoka> that would reduce the documentation overhead. Also interest of people seem to shift over time
  • Sep 13 01:20:25 <jwt> improved (and more) tickets would be good: I got started on FIFE by tackling a couple of easy tickets
  • Sep 13 01:20:43 <jwt> ticketing has been kind of hard lately with the massive restructuring
  • Sep 13 01:20:49 <jwt> but hopefully things should be more stable now
  • Sep 13 01:21:03 <barra> otherwhise I'll paste this log at the talk page of the 2007.2 milestone article and try to work them out in the next two weeks
  • Sep 13 01:21:14 <barra> though my current time budget is rather limited :-/
  • Sep 13 01:21:48 <jwt> I gues it would probably be good to at least have an article for every link here: http://wiki.fifengine.net/index.php?title=Engine_Core. I can work on adding those and getting older articles up to date.
  • Sep 13 01:22:25 <barra> yep, even basic templates for these articles would be good jwt
  • Sep 13 01:22:50 <barra> because people don't really like to create new articles, while filling in rather empty templates seems easier
  • Sep 13 01:24:35 <jwt> I'm going to take a break soon, but later tonight I'm planning to load up a windows machine and get MSVC working... I'll probably have time while stuff installs to work on the wiki
  • Sep 13 01:24:53 <barra> that's really appreciated jwt :-)
  • Sep 13 01:25:15 * jasoka_ (~jasoka@a88-113-188-219.elisa-laajakaista.fi) hat #FIFE betreten
  • Sep 13 01:25:18 <barra> hmm I proposed that the audio module rewrite shouldn't ship with 2007.2, this would just delay things
  • Sep 13 01:25:42 <barra> the same surely goes for the planned new more sophisticated pather by mortiz
  • Sep 13 01:25:53 <barra> especially as mortiz seems to be hard to reach :-(
  • Sep 13 01:26:22 <barra> so anything you two plan to add on the code side for 2007.2 jasoka_ & jwt?
  • Sep 13 01:26:43 <jwt> I think in terms of the code, we're pretty much ready for 2007.2. Metamodel is in, it's at least somewhat stable, and we have a nice foundation for a techdemo
  • Sep 13 01:27:00 <jasoka_> hmm.. my "sleep message" didn't prolly get through :)
  • Sep 13 01:27:05 <barra> nope *g*
  • Sep 13 01:27:23 <jwt> there are a couple odds and ends to be done in loaders, and I guess there are still some bugs in view, but other than that... what do you think jasoka_?
  • Sep 13 01:27:26 <jasoka_> I'm still hoping to get hex geom back in for 2007,2
  • Sep 13 01:27:35 <jwt> ah, ok
  • Sep 13 01:28:01 <barra> working out the organisation and communication issues that are mentioned at the milestone article shouldn't be wasted time as this should give the zero team some time to bring more content into the techdemo